Bedford Ramblings
Steve Mills

The new tax bill. Want to discuss?

Posted Wednesday, December 20, 2017, at 1:34 PM
View 197 comments
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    Hold your drink glasses up everyone and let's all toast the new republican tax plan......

    "May the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer." Cheers!

    The good ole trickle down economics theory...because we all know how well that's worked in the past...right?

    And how will they pay for all these corporate tax cuts?

    As Paul Ryan said, next they're coming after Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

    Woohoo!! And the hits just keep right on coming. 😄👍

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 1:55 PM
  • AT&T has already announced it will give 2 million in bonuses to employees and increase its capital expenditure budget by 1 billion when the law becomes official.

    Already "trickling down".

    Hopefully this tax cut won't kill anymore people who weren't killed by net neutrality repeal.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:06 PM
  • You do have to love the disconnect of a liberal asking how you pay for a tax cut.

    Those of us living in reality know the taxes ARE the payment.

    Several times in the past tax cuts increased the amount of federal revenue due to the economic boom they created. JFK actually opined on that fact, then he did it.

    But that was before democrats went head over heels for European-style socialism.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:16 PM
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    This really is a remarkable time we live in. First time in my life people are complaining about a politician doing what he said he would. Of course there will be plenty of people on here who will be nashing their teeth about how it really is a tax increase on the vast middle class. If any of these naysayers are working at this point, my best advice would be either a) enjoy your extra money and shut up or b) shut up and send it back to DC. After all, don't ya think DC knows better what to do with it than you? In the meantime, those of us out here in the real world will be participating in the the economic expansion.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:32 PM
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    Hey that's great! I guess this means that maybe they can raise the pay of their sweatshop call center workers in The Philippines, India and El Salvador from $2.00 an hour to $2.10?

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:32 PM
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    Nice avatar, RV. Is that you forging some new jewelry, necklace maybe?

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:48 PM
  • I am sitting here looking at all the rich white men and a few women with one minority cheering that they are sticking it to the poor and middle class of America.After complaints about Trump surrounding himself with only white males in the past,they think photo-op will please all Americans.LOL. Pence said this will be a pivotal turn for republicans,it sure will come 2018.Trump is just proud to pass one bill this year no matter what it is.It is the people quitemike making under $10,000 a year that need the breaks,not the millionares and CEO's getting rich off the backs of middle class at $7.00 an hour.Now that premiums will skyrocket these people will not be able to afford insurance and their rich employers will not help them.The employers only interest is making more money and Trump and republicans are helping them and themselves.When anyone get to a point where they have more money than they can spend and have no care or compassion for the less fortunate,it is very sad and they are heartless.How will they answer on judgement day when God ask them,What did you do for the poor? I don't think saying they were lazy and only wanted free rides is going to cut it.

    Fair and quite let me know how you are doing next year when Trump breaks another campaign promise and cuts your entitlements SS,medicare and medicaid.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 2:54 PM
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    Hey, thanks fair.

    Yes, forging a Nazi swastik into an American Flag. 👍

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 4:21 PM
  • People making under 10,000/year need to try working a full time job. With minimum wage at 7.25,that works out to just over 15k a year with full time work.

    People making mimimum wage already pay zero income taxes, how do you get more of a break than that? Oh yeah they get a refund bigger than the total taxes they paid in, due to the EITC and child tax credits.

    Thanks for proving my point about the delineation.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 4:27 PM
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    RV, your right bicep must be massive! Anyway, congratulations on your artisanship.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 4:54 PM
  • I am always in favor of a reduction of plundering by our government or any other entity. A reduction in taxation is a reduction in plundering.

    That being said, I want to see a reduction in the deficits, and more importantly, a reduction in the national debt. There has not been a reduction in the national debt in my lifetime.

    Socialism is completely dependent on plundering other peoples money. Socialism has, and always will, fail because it destroys the people will and ability to produce due to excessive plundering. In as much as Democrats are clearly socialist, they are going to be the ones who scream the loudest when the plunder is reduced. Socialism has at it's root, false philanthropy and stupid greed.

    I have no faith in the GOP to turn any of this around. But a reduction of theft from my earnings is at least encouraging.

    Maybe, they can cut spending, and reduce the national debt, But I find that highly unlikely.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 5:30 PM
  • What a shame quitemike for someone making a whooping $15,000 a year to be so below the poverty level that they owe no tax.How dare they use EITC and claim their own children shame on them.Can you live off that and afford insurance? You have no problem with CEOs getting million dollar raises and greedy corporations paying $7.25 an hour that will barely even pay for a jug of milk and a gallon of gas.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 7:56 PM
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    Hey,unreal. This tax reform bill pertains to people who pay taxes. Not people who make their living off those taxes. If you want to help them, by all means get them a gallon of milk and a gallon of gas. You have every right and freedom to do that. But don't misrepresent the bill. Oh, wait a minute. I almost forgot you only listen to Nancy and Chuckie while drinking your Morning Joe. But don't worry. You can cheer them on next week while they try to shut the government down.

    It really is a shame the dems are so against the country and the working class stiff that not even 1 senator could see their way to allow the American taxpayer to keep a little more of their money. All because they think they can't allow a thriving economy and hope for good results in 2018 and 2020.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 8:44 PM
  • If you're an adult working a long term minimum wage job, you have no one to blame but yourself. Learn a skill, become an apprentice, take some night classes.

    Heck, showing up for work on time every day and actually working while you're there would put you ahead of most people.

    Winners will always find a way, democrats will always find an excuse.

    I have zero problem with people being able to keep the money they earned vs. being forced to give it over to slackers who didn't want to put forth the effort to succeed

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 9:27 PM
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    Over the years I have seen several analysis of which state receives the greatest federal dollars as a function of population;

    Here is one of those.


    There is one thing that is consistent - Republican voting states are more dependent on federal funds than Democrat voting states in aggregate. Tennessee is ranked number 8 in the most federally dependent according to Wallet hub.

    In 2014, personal income in Bedford County was about $1.5 billion; of that there was $363 million in transfer payments that came into the county representing 23% of the total personal income in Bedford County. Transfer payments are Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Veterans Benefits and TANF.

    Trump carried Bedford county with about 75% of the vote. This is consistent with other rural counties in state. Clearly a lot of people dependent on government for their livelihood in Tennessee voted for Trump and Republicans. It is a fallacy to thing otherwise.

    -- Posted by Grit on Wed, Dec 20, 2017, at 11:37 PM
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    That's Trump's base. He has the uneducated, white rural, trailer park NASCAR people that vote against their best economic interests, instead standing with their firm conservative moral beliefs (pro-guns, anti-abortion, anti-gay, racists and bible thumpers)

    And then he has the corporate billionaires that he deregulates and cuts taxes for that laugh all the way to the bank as they economically screw over those people.

    That's the Republican Party in a nut-shell.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 4:53 AM
  • Grit, I don't know if you followed the other blog post, so I'll show you where relying on the voting patterns of and transfer payments to states is lazy research.

    RV was shown this multiple times, during our back and forth, but he has a problem accepting information that challenges his liberal brainwashing, but I digress.

    Here are a few problems with trying to draw inferences between voting patterns in a state and transfer payments to people in that state.

    Problem 1-Far less than half of citizens of any state usually vote in any election.

    Problem 2-There is no state where the majority of people use assistance.

    Problem 3- A vote could easily be split 51-49 with higher rates of assistance use among the 49.

    Problem 4- People with higher incomes have higher rates of actually voting.

    Problem 5- People with felony records, or otherwise legally barred from voting, also have higher rates of poverty, as many well paying jobs are unavailable to them.

    If you really want to look at who uses assistance, and the fact that everything about democrat ideology is about avoiding adult responsibility and looking for freebies isn't enough to convince you, then you need to look at how INDIVIDUALS ON ASSISTANCE vote. (remember that one RV?)

    Luckily, for those actually interested in finding the truth, there are a few studies that show how INDIVIDUALS ON ASSISTANCE actually vote.

    Here are four of them:





    As all four of these links, which are from various positions on the political spectrum, show, individuals who don't work, and/or are on the dole, vote for democrats at much higher levels. Again this shouldn't come as a shock, since the democrat party doesn't have a single platform, or piece of legislation, that isn't based on avoiding responsibility or trying to get someone else to support them.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 5:54 AM
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    Yeah, yeah,....and, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

    Mikey will talk in circles and post numerous links on that subject, but will never explain or own up to these simple facts.

    The highest use of welfare and food stamp benefits come from States and Counties that are run by Republicans (Republican Governors, Senators, Congressmen) and overwhelming vote Republican.

    The very number one county in the U.S. that receives these benefits is in Kentucky. It's 99% white, and 95% vote Republican. But somehow Mikey will try to blame Democrats.

    Its fun to watch.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 7:09 AM
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    Can anyone believe this? I mean, really! After all the caterwauling on the MSM yesterday?!? How is it possible we are all even still here to carry on this conversation? But, since we are, I'd like to take this opportunity to wish you all a very Merry early Christmas. And here's to a Happier New Year for all, even the ones that will be complaining about the improvement.

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 7:26 AM
  • Let's call your bluff here, RV

    For the sake of discussion, let's assume your intellectually lazy position has merit (it doesn't).

    You and some others claim it's all the so-called "red staters" who actually get all the benefits. If that is the case, it SHOULD impact them more if the program is discontinued.

    So discontinue it. Let the market do what it naturally will; and let's see who's correct. It SHOULD be breathtakingly easy to "prove" your point.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 7:44 AM
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    There are counties in Tennessee, KY, MO, Arkansas etc. in which transfer payments exceed 40% of personal income - and Trump carried those counties by over 75%. Population in these counties is usually over 95% plus white. During the KY election for governor, the more people were on Medicaid as a function of Obamacare, the more they voted for Bevins who was elected and cut people off Medicaid.


    As for Food Stamps, in the TN 4th Congressional District (DesJarlais) over 75% of households on food stamps had at least one family member that worked.


    A high percentage of food stamps goes to those residents over 60 years of age.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 8:24 AM
  • And so it goes! Since it appears that everybody is stuck in their own rut and will not change anybody else's mind, why don't we just can the argument? Surely, you have better things to do.

    -- Posted by Tyger on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 8:44 AM
  • Grit,

    I guess you missed the point too.

    Do any of those counties or districts have a 100% voting rate?

    No they don't.

    Since they don't, you can't draw inferences between the voting patterns of an area and the rate of assistance use.

    I guess you also missed the part where the poor, who are the users of assistance, vote at lower rates than more wealthy people?

    Who created welfare and other handout programs?

    Who fights against cuts to those programs?

    Which party's entire platform is based on freebies?

    Which party is always finding something new that is suddenly an absolute necessity, that must be funded by others?

    Who says its heartless and cruel to not support the poor with tax money?

    Who invokes the bible, without an understanding of it, to try and justify freebies?

    Then ask yourself who pushed through welfare reform in the 90s,past two presidential vetoes.

    Who is currently talking about more welfare reform and who is throwing a hissy fit about it?


    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 8:57 AM
  • Tyger there are a few on here now that may not have gone through our marathon post. Can't blame them.

    BUT, I am always open to new subjects so let me know here or through an email. Sometimes makeing it here will develop opinions just from who suggested so .......

    Others can attest to the fact that I don't divulge identities. Even those who jump on me. 😺 It is easy since I make it a point to not go back to try to figure it out or remember.

    Forgetting is becoming easier each day.😳

    -- Posted by stevemills on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:14 AM
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    Mikey totally skips over the fact that these States and counties that receive the most government assistance are also run by Republicans(Republican Governors, Senators, congressmen).

    If Republicans are so good at running things, why are their constituents the ones who need the most government assistance?

    And why is it that 97 of the United States poorest 100 counties are in republican run red states?

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:19 AM
  • So how about that tax bill? I hear both sides and all I really get from it is how spin can be used around numbers. All I know to do is see how it pans out.

    Chances are great that this will change with the next political change in Washington so I do not put much stock in projections past 8-10 years. Even then, there are so many "ifs" on both sides that I don't see agonizing as much as many have already done.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:48 AM
  • Steve,

    Tax Policy Center analysis is that 80% of filers will see reduced taxes for the next eight years, 15% will see no change, and 5% will see some increase.


    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:59 AM
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    Let us go back to Wallet Hub web site. Tennessee is 48th in local and state taxes; but yet is 8th in dependence on federal funds


    Of recent, the state of Kansas cut taxes only to reduce the overall state GDP and force cuts in state services.


    Therefore, what happens in a very low tax state like Tennessee that receives more than its fair share of federal funds? I suspect that the federal funds have offset the lack of state and local revenue.

    Public infrastructure is needed in order to maintain and grow an economy. With a drying up of federal funds under the Trump administration; and a lack of state funds – funding for infrastructure will fall to the local residents. The unfairness will be in high poverty areas of Tennessee (rural) that does not have an expanding economy and cannot afford to maintain their present infrastructure. People in these counties vote Republican.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:10 AM
  • Mikey totally skips over the fact that these States and counties that receive the most government assistance are also run by Republicans(Republican Governors, Senators, congressmen).

    If Republicans are so good at running things, why are their constituents the ones who need the most government assistance?

    And why is it that 97 of the United States poorest 100 counties are in republican run red states?

    -- Posted by RocketValentine



    On one hand I know you can't help that God didn't give you a fully functional brain. OTOH, it is your fault that you don't try to learn.

    So I'm torn, and will err on the side of caution.

    Please explain to us the procedure for a mayor of a town or even the governor of a state to completely opt out of any welfare program.

    Would they write a letter to congress or the president?

    Would a phone call do?

    Would they have to pass legislation in their jurisdiction?

    There may be something you've heard of called the supremacy clause, which says that federal laws take precedent over local laws. Local laws can be more restrictive than federal laws but they can't be less so.

    This is why marijuana growers in Colorado can't put their money in banks and why they live under the constant threat of a raid by federal officials. Ebmven though Colorado says its legal, the feds say it isn't and the feds are the ones in control.

    Your claim that since some people in an area vote a certain way, and that area has a high rate of assistance use is no different than racists who say that since more blacks are in prison it means all blacks are criminals.

    Both are the result of lazy "thinkers" practicing confirmation bias. They already have their mind made up and look for evidence to back up what they already believe.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:11 AM
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    Steve, I don't understand why Trump and republicans won't be just truthful about who their tax cuts are geared towards.

    Trump said that this tax plan certainly doesn't help him, his rich buddies or big corporations.

    But that's just not the case, and that's not "spin".

    One of the biggest things the plan does is cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. It also gives major tax cuts to people making over 1 million a year.

    I don't think anyone disputes this, but if you've seen different numbers please share them.

    So if that's the case, why not be honest and tell it like it is.

    Trump should have said, "We're going to cut taxes on the top 1% and big corporations because we think that will trickle down and create jobs and stimulate the economy".

    Which is fine, if that's what they believe.

    But don't try to sell it as a big tax break for the lower and middle class, blue collar Americans.

    That's just a lie.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM
  • As for the poorest states RV and Grit are using old information.

    Most people know that a 30,000/year job wouldn't be bad in Mississippi, but wouldn't last half a year in California or New York because of the cost of living differences between the two areas.

    Older studies just used income based on the federal poverty rate without accounting for differences in cost of living.

    Recent studies take these differences into account by using a supplemental poverty measure.

    When using this measure, California has the highest poverty rate in the country (may be tied with Florida depending on the study), which should not be surprising. California has 13% of the country's population but accounts for 1/3 of the country's food stamp use.


    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:23 AM
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    Not old information.

    Grits link and data was from March of this year.

    I got mine from the 2017 tax foundation

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:48 AM
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    First, surely you understand the idea of the "progressive" as opposed to "regressive" tax rates. That is kinda a liberal thing. Once you understand that, it should be easy to understand how it works in reverse.

    Second, now you are just being silly with your avatar.

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 10:58 AM
  • Not old information.

    Grits link and data was from March of this year.

    I got mine from the 2017 tax foundation


    Does everything have to be explained to you repeatedly?

    They used the old method for calculating poverty rates.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 11:16 AM
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    My data from the Tax Foundation wasn't about poverty rates.

    It was data on which States and counties received the the most government assistance.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 11:33 AM
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    There are a lot of policy issues here. One reason that cost of living is low in Tennessee is housing costs. However, even in Bedford County, people live here then commute to the jobs in Murfreesboro, Franklin and Nashville - because housing is lower.

    Here is some work by Richard Florida, from 2014:


    For example, one reason that Texas has such a hot economy is housing - there is room to grow there, at the expense of agriculture land. A company can pay employees less. Just fly over Dallas Fort Worth.

    If federal policy was to identify poverty by cost of living; then rural Southern states would receive even less federal funds - once again pushing on local resources to maintain public infrastructure. The Economic Policy Institute, a left leaning thing tank has proposed addressing poverty by cost of living.

    Here is the EPI Calculator for cost of living by address:


    Finally, there are no Fortune 500 companies headquartered in the TN 4th Congressional District.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 11:56 AM
  • My data from the Tax Foundation wasn't about poverty rates.

    It was data on which States and counties received the the most government assistance.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine

    Which has been shown to be irrelevant multiple times.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 12:28 PM
  • Grit

    Do you understand the concept of individuals voting?

    How do individuals vote, specific to this discussion, how do individuals on assistance vote?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 12:31 PM
  • RV,

    No answer as to how a mayor or governor opts out of welfare programs for his area?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 12:33 PM
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    Good luck, Grit.

    It's possible what we're witnessing with Mikey is evolution in reverse.

    Facts he can't comprehend = "irrelevant" in his confused mind.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 1:03 PM
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    As a individual voter, I always ask "what is the implication of the policies that this candidate espouses, and how does that affect me?" The term here is policies, I am not a single issue voter. However, economic policy is premier to me.

    As for opting out of welfare programs. I would encourage any local Republican mayor, governor, state rep. etc. to run on a policy of opting out of all welfare for their represented area. TANF payments are the real welfare payments. To catch all entitlements that people call welfare, you must get rid of Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and Food Stamps. Please run on that platform.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 1:03 PM
  • It's possible what we're witnessing with Mikey is evolution in reverse.

    Facts he can't comprehend = "irrelevant" in his confused mind.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine

    Says the guy who gets dizzy when challenged to think, so he blames other of talking in circles.

    If Ben Carson opened up your skull and poured in a 5 gallon bucket of cow manure, your IQ would rise by 60%.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 1:21 PM
  • Grit,

    Not how you vote.

    How do individuals who are on assistance vote?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 1:22 PM
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    Ah yes, Ben Carson.

    The former republican presidential candidate, and now member of the Trump administration, who actually believes that the Egyptian Pyramids weren't built by ancient Egyptians and used as sacred burial tombs, but instead were built the biblical Joseph and used as grain silos.

    Not surprising you'd invoke his name since you're about as warped as he is.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 1:50 PM
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    How do people on public assistance vote? Whoever or whatever influences them the greatest. In this part of the world, the evangelical church, Fox news, Christian radio, their friends etc. will have a major influence on people’s perception and their vote whether they receive public assistance or not. How does one explain union members voting for the candidate who will enact right to work, or in Kentucky those on Medicaid voting for the candidate who will get rid of it, or Christian evangelicals honoring Donald Trump, even with his misbehavers throughout his life, not to mention the vote for Roy Moore; finally even public assistance recipients vote for Republicans here, even though the Republican party wants to eliminate the programs in which they depend.

    The problem with all this is, who is influencing whom and for what reason? Russia’s influence on the 2016 election being an example: or most recent multinational corporations influencing the working class Republican voter, to convince them that the latest tax cut is of their benefit. What part of our democracy are people willing to destroy just in order to allow their party to remain in power?

    The fallacy is that those on public assistance in this part of the country vote exclusively Democrat. They do not, no more than all multinational corporate board members vote Republican.

    Personally, I would like a well-informed public, a public that understands issues and the implication of voting for a candidate associated with those positions. I would love to see liberal Republicans, conservative Democrats, and a move to bipartisanship in our political discourse. Even with this discussion, we have a lot of noise.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 3:03 PM
  • This seems to be something of a quandary. If I am understanding the posts here, then there are 2 scenarios in relation to taxation and the 2 parties.

    In both scenarios the argument is that the opposing party is voting against their own best interest. This, of course, holds little regard in the ability of the person(s) holding the opposing view to know what is best for their own well being.

    Here are the 2 argument/scenarios as I see it:

    1.) Republicans vote for benefit cuts which they are the prime recipients of.

    2.) Democrats vote for tax increases which is used to pay benefits to the republicans to which they are opposed.

    To me it looks like a Chinese finger trap.

    The solution of course being to push towards each other.

    This would mean reducing both taxation and benefits. In this way, the number of republicans on benefits would be reduced, thereby changing them into democrats, who are willing to pay more in taxes.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 5:19 PM
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    Reduction of taxation and benefits is probably what will happen with the new tax cuts. Public infrastructure will also be affected, especially if Paygo is enforced. The people of Tennessee may be affected given the dependency of federal government funds.

    Republicans will not be Democrats, too much propaganda.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 5:58 PM
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    Trying to follow the liberal logic can put anyone in an upside down, inside out world. But the bottom line is reduced taxation along with reduced benefits. And who knows, maybe, just maybe, people will start taking care of themselves and their families (even extended families).

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 6:05 PM
  • If propaganda is the determining factor in changing people from one party to another, I would have to say that the overwhelming influence is on the side of the Democrats.

    Or, is it also a point of contention that the media is overwhelmingly liberal?

    In regard to tax cuts: Why would anyone be against an entity forcibly taking away less of their earnings?

    Surely, if benevolence is the reason, there are sufficient outlets for the benevolent to continue unabated.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 6:25 PM
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    Yep. We are all free to give as much as we want to whoever we want. Ain't freedom grand?

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 6:30 PM
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    One fallacy that surfaces is that benevolent organizations (churches) can take the place of government with charity. In Bedford County alone $363 million comes into county residents in the form of Medicaid, Medicare, social security, food stamps and veterans benefits. No organization in the county has that capacity.

    People seem to forget that we live today at the mercy of the systems that humankind has established. It takes a lot to keep everything glued together.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 8:03 PM
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    Grit, why do you lump social security, medicare, and veterans benefits, which have been earned or paid for, with welfare?

    Anyone notice the dems failed yet again today? Government is still open for bidness. Despite the dems best efforts, our soldiers still get paid.

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 8:12 PM
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    They are all entitlements and part of the safety net. What is usually called welfare is TANF - Temporary Assistance to Needy Families. Social Security Disability is now the big one - in Bedford County there are over 2100 people on Social Security Disability.

    -- Posted by Grit on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:09 PM
  • *

    There's a lot of misuse of the word "entitlement". People actually are entitled to social security and medicare and veterans benefits since they earned or paid for them. TANF is a "gift" from the taxpayer. As is a significant portion of SS disability.

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Dec 21, 2017, at 9:25 PM
  • Here are the 2 argument/scenarios as I see it:

    1.) Republicans vote for benefit cuts which they are the prime recipients of.

    2.) Democrats vote for tax increases which is used to pay benefits to the republicans to which they are opposed.

    To me it looks like a Chinese finger trap

    -- Posted by Liveforlight

    It looks like a quandry, because it's based on an incorrect premise.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 3:19 AM
  • If propaganda is the determining factor in changing people from one party to another, I would have to say that the overwhelming influence is on the side of the Democrats---Posted by Liveforlight

    Agreed. Look at voting patterns. In the tax cut vote, not a single dem in favor, but 12 repubs opposed.

    This has been the case many times. Dems are much more likely to have a hive mentality on issues.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 3:23 AM
  • How do people on public assistance vote? Whoever or whatever influences them the greatest. - - - Posted by Grit

    Excellent answer. People who pay your bills have a an inordinate influence on people's decisions.

    Just as repubs voted in congress to keep more of their money. Individuals on assistance vote to keep the gravy train rolling. The only folks promising that are democrats.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 4:25 AM
  • *

    Individuals on assistance vote to keep the gravy train rolling

    If that is the case, why did the people in Grundy County; which receive about 40% of their overall personal income in transfer payments, voted 80% for Donald Trump? Once again this is consistent in the white rural South.

    Republicans need to get in their head, that part of their constituency are poor white rural voters on public assistance.

    -- Posted by Grit on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 7:31 AM
  • It looks like a quandry, because it's based on an incorrect premise.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 3:19 AM

    I understand your point, not that I disagree, or agree with you. I simply made the observation assuming both parties have valid points. Again, not that I agree with either party, just paying due respect to both.

    Grit does have a point about SS disability. I don't know about the statistics. I am always very skeptical of statistics since they can be easily skewed. However, I know several people on SS disability. Without exception, they all have some disability. Also, without exception, they are all capable of working and DO work.

    They draw SS disability because they can. Some do nothing but travel and enjoy a lifelong vacation. Some, do work on their own, usually for cash. Some are working on their own property, some for other people, some selling items on line. Some are doing better fiscally than I am.

    This is what the failure of Socialism looks like. Because they are able to draw a check for their disability, they are then able to increase their wealth through other means, (side jobs, auction reselling, yard sale reselling, scrap metals, etc., etc.). They enjoy a freer lifestyle that I do and are more prosperous, even though I work a full time job and pay THEIR checks!

    People, like animals, generally take the path of least resistance. So, ANYONE who observes this situation is inclined to take the same path if possible. This in turn causes productivity to drop and eventually leads to fiscal collapse as more people stop working and get on the SS system.

    Again, THAT is the failure of Socialism. Sooner or later you run out of other peoples money to spend.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 7:34 AM
  • If that is the case, why did the people in Grundy County; which receive about 40% of their overall personal income in transfer payments, voted 80% for Donald Trump? Once again this is consistent in the white rural South.

    Republicans need to get in their head, that part of their constituency are poor white rural voters on public assistance.

    -- Posted by Grit


    I'm beginning to think you're not too bright Grit.

    Once again 100% of the people in Grundy county didn't vote.

    On average, less than half of people actually vote in any election.

    Poor people vote at lower rates than wealthy people.

    Instead of looking at voting patterns of areas, look at how individuals vote.

    I gave you four different studies that show exactly that earlier.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 8:04 AM
  • *

    Also Grit, you are mixing apples and oranges and calling it all apples. You are lumping people on welfare in with people who are receiving a pension they actually worked for. Talking about the the widespread abuse of SSI makes me think about some of the brilliant mega-rich entrepreneurs who don't have walking around sense that have recently touted universal income. It really is an interesting idea and I would enjoy seeing them give it a try with their own money. Seems like every century or so we need another failed attempt at a utopian society to remind people it doesn't work.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 9:11 AM
  • *

    You assume that poor whites on government assistance in rural areas either do not vote or vote Democrat.

    I do not. I believe they vote for Republican candidates at the same percentage as other people in their area. The Bevin governor race; and the percentage of Republican votes in rural counties with a high percentage of transfer payments points that way.

    You also assume that people will vote for their own personal interest. I do not. Rural residents, typically have no clue how dependent their community may be on transfer payments, or other government programs; but then will vote to cut those programs.

    Now, poor urban residents will vote Democrat. Not so in rural areas especially in the South. Look at poverty, transfer payments and voting patterns in Appalachia and the Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks.

    -- Posted by Grit on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 9:26 AM
  • Grit, I have to say that I am impressed with your level responses amidst sometimes deriding comments.

    Actually, they are being for the most part mild in response to your comments so I think you are a great addition to our group. (Even though I too don't see SS income as entitlement.

    Maybe disability is more but not if it is legitimate. If it is monitored well, I believe that is a good use of my tax dollar. Of course, how well it is monitored is another matter.

    I wish facts could not be manipulated as easily as they can, but some

    University courses enlightened me on how anquestion is asked and how to use numbers to make a point. Swings bith wAys.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 9:40 AM
  • GRIT

    I'm assuming nothing. I'm going by data.

    You OTOH assume since an area has a high poverty rate and that area's vote totals went a certain way, then it must mean people in poverty voted a certain way.

    There isn't enough data available for you to make that assumption and have any degree of credibility, for the reasons I've pointed out multiple times.

    You ever heard of Occam's razor?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 10:03 AM
  • *

    Steve, you didn't just throw down a challenge, did you? 😆😄😆😄

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 10:16 AM
  • Not to become more aggressive. 😳 Maybe I am just seeing Holiday civility?😬

    -- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 10:47 AM
  • *

    Could be, Steve, could be.

    Talk about perfect timing! Just as I was watching Trump sign the historic tax reform/relief bill into law, I noticed an article in today's paper by Jason Reynolds following up on a recent article about the community free clinic. What a great way for unreal, RV, and probably lazarus (is he still around?) to use their unwanted tax savings. Tho I'm perfectly happy with a tax break, if you guys would kick in to meet the match, I would be glad to also. Matter of fact, I'm going to do it anyway, irregardless (I like that nonword) of what you guys do. But what better way to dispose of an unwanted tax break while at the same time doing something actually worthwhile. How bout giving little Timmy back his crutch?😄👍✔

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 11:10 AM
  • Do you listen to John Tesh fare share? I heard him talk about that word yesterday as I was driving. LOL

    Lazarus is still around to my knowlesge but sui seems to have taken a break or gone.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 11:18 AM
  • *

    Only time I listen to Tish is when I have a rental that doesn't have Sirius. Mostly 70s on 7, Fox News (cause I stay up to date on fake news here on the blogs 😉) and 148 RadioClassics (Dragnet, Gunsmoke, and a lot of other old classic radio shows). I expect laz and sui to show back up sooner or later. Everyone needs a break from here once in a while.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 12:07 PM
  • *


    Here is good definition of government entitlement programs.


    Even farm program payments are entitlements.

    -- Posted by Grit on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 8:21 PM
  • *

    Another way of looking at it is you are "entitled" to the air that you breathe and whatever you drag back to the cave. Another way of looking at it is you are entitled to what you earn and to be left alone.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Dec 22, 2017, at 9:22 PM
  • I never thought I would get through all of the above. I have looked at the new tax rates and found that I'm still in the same interval, so I'm among the 15%.

    You know what they say about figures. For example, QM says that 100% of the people of Grundy county didn't vote; that's true as quite a few are too young to vote.

    Steve, I understand what you were saying, but it is just the same old same old, ad infinitem. And I appreciate the trying to be civil; just wish the rest were.

    -- Posted by Tyger on Sat, Dec 23, 2017, at 9:11 AM
  • How about maintaining calm until after Christmas, or New Years, maybe Valentines Day, Spring Solstice, Easter........ 😬

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sat, Dec 23, 2017, at 10:19 AM
  • Not gone Steve, but this is a busy season for me, so I have just been checking in periodically. There hasn't really been much point in adding anything.QM is still repeatedly posting his sweeping conclusions drawn from a single scrap of data (no matter how many sources he draws it from). It is easily demonstrated to be a false premise by additional data. As if it is not recognizably illogical without bothering to look up the information. Having done that once, there seems no point in posting the same thing over and over. Think how short these discussions would be if people would only post the same thing once! LBR might have a little better grasp of statistical information, but seems to be trapped by the inability to understand the motivations behind voting choices. The rest of the regulars all continue posting pretty much the same things, it is only this Grout guy who has had anything interesting to add. He has been around periodically before and I wish he would stay around more, as he does not seem to be stuck in an endless loop.

    Of course the actual topic is the new tax bill. Like everyone else, I mostly know what has been said about it, not what it actually does. I do know a few things. I know that both proponents and opponents are using skewed and misleading "information" to support their opinions, and those who wish to believe either way are repeating those arguments without challenging them. I know that any sweeping legislation that is rushed through for political purposes without any serious study or analysis ("without being read" as it were) will have unintended consequences. I don't think anyone has to look far for an example of this. And I know that it has not made our tax laws simpler.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 1:35 AM
  • Its not a single scrap of info from several different sources.

    You'd know that if you had the courage to challenge you liberal democrat beliefs and actually look at the sources.

    But fat chance of that since you don't even have the courage to admit you're a liberal democrat.

    As for the information being easy to demostrate as a false premise, why haven't you done so? The parties exist to represent the desires of their constituents. If the parties fail to do that, they will lose support of those consituents. QED Tea party members and Trump's election.

    Dems have been consistently offering abdication of responsibility and freebies since the late 1960s,so that's obviously what democrats want.

    There is no evidence that the ratio of those on assistance among actual voters in a specific election is the same as the ratio of those on assistance among the community in general, so claiming the poorest (county, district, state) votes a certain way is is a specious claim.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 3:49 AM
  • *

    I would like to take this opportunity to wish Steve, quietmike, and sui a very Merry Christmas. And, not wanting to be offensive to anyone, I would like to wish Happy Holidays to lazarus, unreal, RV, and everyone else.


    -- Posted by fair share on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 8:38 AM
  • Looks like someone isn't getting enough sleep.

    -- Posted by Tyger on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 8:42 AM
  • And Merry Christmas to you also, Fare. It is nice to see us keeping at least some of the pagan traditions alive.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 11:16 AM
  • *

    Isn't it? I'm sure some celebrate pagan traditions. And some celebrate the birth of Jesus, which is the real reason for the season. Please hold the lecture about it not being the right day. Sadly, many use Christmas to celebrate me, me, meism.

    -- Posted by fair share on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 2:27 PM
  • *

    A couple of interesting studies on poverty and white working class:


    this one confirms that white working class without college degrees are major recepients of safety net programs and



    where the study states

    "there is an association between drug, alcohol and suicide mortality and Trump’s election performance"

    I continue to believe that white working class Trump voters utilize, and some are dependent on the social safety net programs. Also there is a major drug and alcohol problem in some rural areas, and voters there voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

    Stating that the few people who vote Democrat in some of these rural heavy Republican voting counties - are the only ones on government assistance is absurd.

    I did have a good Christmas. Good to get away from this stuff for a couple of days.

    -- Posted by Grit on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 6:13 PM
  • I continue to believe that white working class Trump voters utilize, and some are dependent on the social safety net programs. - - - Posted by Grit

    No one is saying otherwise.

    Of course some do. The question is which side uses it more.

    Logic would dictate its the side constantly advocating for them, and always trying to find new ones.

    That and the studies already posted showing those on assistance vote democrat at higher rates.

    It is pitiful to try to throw race into the mix when it's never been part of the discussion.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Dec 25, 2017, at 9:40 PM
  • *

    Not here. In aggregate - yes. Remember, Clinton received more votes than Trump - and yes the urban poor voted for her in greater numbers; rural poor in Appslachia, mid South, and Rust Belt did not.

    The Republican party owns the rural poor problem.

    -- Posted by Grit on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 8:31 AM
  • You still cannot show how people of a community vote and tie that into whether they use assistance.

    Since you like using Grundy county as an example, let's take a closer look at them.

    The latest census data shows Grundy having a popupation of 13,389 people of which 21.7% were under age 18. Grundy's poverty rate is 22.6%


    That gives us 10,484 adults living in Grundy and 3026 people, adults and children, living in poverty.

    In the presidential election 3626 people in Grundy voted for Trump and 998 voted for Hillary.


    That's 4624 total votes between the two. What about the other 5864 people?

    Where's your evidence that the 3626 people who voted for Trump are the ones living in poverty?

    It's a very simple question, yet one that continues to go unanswered.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 9:29 AM
  • No lecture forthcoming, Fare. The genesis of the date and the mingling of pagan and Christian customs is actually an interesting topic. Christianity, like anything else, has evolved over time. Back in the 300's there was a growing "movement" (movement is not really the right term, it was more of a trend) to describe Jesus as a purely supernatural being, and not having had a corporeal existence. The church felt that affixing a "birth date" would lend support to the concept that Jesus had been a real person. The choice of the Winter Solstice as that date was not incidental, as there is a tradition of connecting the lengthening of days with rebirth. (The same reason we chose this time for our "New Year.") Our European ancestors gladly linked the old traditional practices to the new holiday, as they felt a connection to these things that had been passed down thru time. This is a lot like the descendants of the indigenous people of Central and South America, who have combined their own traditional practices with the Catholic holidays. I don't see any negative about these things, they are just interesting.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 9:41 AM
  • AS I understand it, December 25th was a pagan holiday and the Church decided to usurp it, hoping they were killing a bit of paganism.

    Many year ago I read an article where a person, using what was in the Bible, known historical records, and astrological events, concluded that Jesus was born September 19. Just a couple of months ago, another person, based that plus some other events, came up with September 12. The only thing that seemed to be left out of the equation was what calendar either was using: Julian or Gregorian.

    Happy New Year to all!

    -- Posted by Tyger on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 2:57 PM
  • The Pagans did not have a traditional holiday on December 25. The month of December did not exist until the invention of the original Roman Calendar (around 700 BCE). And there were many adjustments made with the Julian Calendar (45 BCE). The holidays were tied to the Winter Solstice, which falls close to December 25, but not always on the same date (between the 21at and 23rd). The Gregorian calendar was invented in 1582, because the Julian Calendar was a little inaccurate, and holidays tied to specific celestial events, which had been changed to happen on specific dates, were beginning to drift. I do not know, but I speculate that the adoption of December 25, rather than one of the actual dates that Winter Solstice occurs might be related to that drift between 45 BCE and 349 AD. When the switch was made in 1582, 10 days had to be skipped to put the calendar back in line.... Everyone did not jump at the new calendar and it took over 300 years for the entire world to adopt it. The "US" was a relative latecomer in switching calendars, skipping 11 days in 1752. The last was Turkey, skipping 13 days in 1927.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 3:36 PM
  • *

    Thanks for not lecturing. But those were some nice observational summaries. I'm just glad to know I'm not the only one to have lost a few days here and there!

    -- Posted by fair share on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 6:01 PM
  • No problem, Fare. The world is packed full of interesting things, or at least things I find interesting. It is probably unfair to unload them here, but my family has let me know that they do not share my idea of what is interesting. The worst that happens here is that QM calls me a democrat and Carl calls me a polymorph.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Dec 26, 2017, at 10:23 PM
  • *

    Are you bringing up Carl to shame me into wishing him MC also? Nice try, but I'm not that sleepy yet. Seriously, Laz, have you thought about being on Jeopardy?

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 12:38 AM
  • Lazarus, there might be more "curious" folk than you realize. If you want to test the waters, send me a topic, I will make the post and you take over most of the moderator responses.

    It may take a while to build but with the right title we might bring in more curios minds. You might develop a new community.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 7:37 AM
  • I find that I learn something new every day; some time two things.

    Lazarus, noticed that I used a lower case "p" as I wasn't sure which one but that was what I thought the Church put out as a reason. I knew all about the calendar problem; you may be right about that drift. What I was wondering about was which calendar they were basing their dates on.

    -- Posted by Tyger on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 8:52 AM
  • *

    Steve, I think lazarus would make a decent jr blogger associate. Then, if he did a good job and liked it, he might even make the 5 mile trek down to the T-G in the snow, uphill both ways to fill out the papers, get fingerprinted and photographed, pass the background check, and sign the noncompete clause to become a dyed in the wool for real blogger. Who woulda thunk?

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 9:39 AM
  • I see only fair,Trump and the faux show are convinced that Trump brought back Merry Christmas.Another one of their delusions since it never went anywhere and people never stopped saying it,and yes that includes Obama who is on video wishing America a Merry Christmas many times as president.

    Speaking of taxes did anyone see the clip about Trump bragging to his rich friends at Mar A Largo and saying I just made all of you richer.

    He has spent 1/3 of his first year at his resorts and has cost us millions.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 10:50 AM
  • fare share, I signed up when when they gave an all expense paid trip to Gitmo. No ice and snow. LOL

    Hope you had a Merry and Blessed Christmas LBR.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 11:55 AM
  • LBR, don't mess up happy time! We have all year to beat on talking points, but once in a while we could all get along....

    Fare; I enjoy Jeopardy, and playing from home I can tear it up on science, history, geography, and similar categories. But i go down in flames on stuff like art, music, literature, and (especially) movies. I considered trying out, but my weak categories are just too weak!

    -- Posted by lazarus on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 1:58 PM
  • *

    Too bad, Laz. But I sure understand. Especially English lit. I would rather have every tooth extracted (without Novacaine) than be forced to read the Bard. Or whoever wrote Hamlet, etc. Art should be easy, since it is whatever you want it to be. But it ain't easy.

    Steve, I always wondered where you got that tan at. Nice to finally know. 😎

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 27, 2017, at 5:50 PM
  • *

    Happy New Year's everyone. But be careful out there. Tonight there will be plenty of guys drinking, acting irresponsibly, letting their wives drive.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sun, Dec 31, 2017, at 3:15 PM
  • We've driven about as much as we are going to this year. Happy New Year to everyone as well and may everyone's family be safe.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sun, Dec 31, 2017, at 7:32 PM
  • Looks like I will finish 2017 the same way I started it... working. And 2018 will get off to the same start as 2017. That is a Happy New Year for me! Hope ya'll also get to start your new years in the way you wish.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Sun, Dec 31, 2017, at 11:42 PM

    -- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Jan 1, 2018, at 12:10 AM
  • My Nuclear button is bigger than your Nuclear button.Why does Trump need to let everyone know how "tough" he is.Lets see how many Trump supporters will be invited to the underground bunker at Camp David with him.The man is coming unhinged,where are the adults in the WH.What sane president would challenge another president to do this.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Tue, Jan 2, 2018, at 11:37 PM
  • *

    He's a toddler.

    A mentally unstable, narcissistic toddler.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 5:05 AM
  • *

    He didn't mention this, but it is also a beautiful button, probably the best button ever. Would it have been better if he had said "I also have a small, wimpy button"? Maybe during the second year of Trump's presidency some of the diehard libs will realize there really is a new sheriff in town that doesn't follow the mainstream rules. Like a breath of fresh air. Which makes me think of CNN. It was a blast watching the Collusion News Network ring in the New Year on a high note!

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 8:40 AM
  • -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 2:51 PM
  • *

    Pretty funny RV. But I don't think the proportions are quite right. Trump reminds me of a David Allen Coe song I've heard a few times. Don't recall all the words, but something about making Linda Lovelace gag.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 3:22 PM
  • The reality is Kim was bragging about having the capability to hit anywhere in the US.

    So he has the ability we had in the 1960s.

    He'd do well to think about that for a while.

    As for sane presidents, which sane president gave North Korea two nuclear reactors and 5 billion?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 5:58 PM
  • *

    Come to think of it, Li'l Kim is just a little squirt. Trump is a tsunami.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 10:26 PM
  • Fair it would have been better if he acted like a real president and not stoop to Kim's level.

    This book that came out today by Wolff is driving the WH nuts.Bannon and Trump's bromance is over.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 10:34 PM
  • Act like a real president....


    The further Kim gets pushed in his war of rhetoric... the more its shown that Emperor Rocket Man has no clothes. Every time he opens his mouth, we have an excuse to turn the screws tighter. And push China to turn the screws tighter... or turn the screws tighter on China... for not turning the screws tighter on North Korea.

    For 70 years, NK has used bluster, rhetoric and this kind of BS to extort the West for food, fuel, and funds every time their bankrupt system fails to feed their people and prop up a dynasty and cult-of-personality. Making the guy look like an idiot... and pushing his buttons (so to speak) keeps chipping at his facade.

    We've caved for three generations. Now we're not caving. In the same way that Reagan 'called out' the Soviet Union and called them an Evil Empire and called to "Tear Down That Wall" and we revealed the chinks in their armor. And, you will recall that the pundits, drunk Teddy Kennedy, and New York Times liberals... in their conventional wisdom and Neville Chamberlain diplomat panty-waist style, said we were going to get in a nuclear war because of that "harsh talk"

    North Korea is no longer isolated. The internet is creeping in. Thumb drives are like currency... with Western movies, TV and news on them. The Army is starving and unhappy. Pyongyang is like the capital in The Hunger Games... but is a bubble that is not sustainable... And little Kim doesn't have the age or influence to have the respect of the people. He may be consolidating power by executing his relatives... he thinks. But he is one 'flick' away from being toast.

    Let the games continue... If we'd turned Hitler into a laughing stock instead of mincing and mewling and bowing to his power and bluster... he'd have likely been a non-entity in history. If we had continued with Detente... we'd still have a Soviet Union and an Eastern Europe under Communism. Kim Jong whackjob is on the way out. Tick Tock.....

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 3, 2018, at 11:53 PM
  • *

    Do you people even look at what you write?

    Just how many of you can really truthfully explain the new tax bill?

    How many of you even know anything about taxes?

    I had a JW come to my door one day and he told me that you have to pay taxes and die, but now you don't have to die according to the scripture.

    I looked at him and told him I was here to tell HIM that now you don't have to pay taxes either.

    He expected me to believe him but he couldn't believe that we don't have to pay taxes! Again I repeat - people who are taught something only know what they were taught by their instructors or teachers.

    The American people never had to pay taxes because it isn't legislated that the people must pay taxes. Only Big Corporations paid the Taxes on their Income. That was used to run our country. The law makers needed more tax money so they said that government employees, officers and officials should pay the tax also because they were paid by federal money and was taxable. They also included all 14th amendment citizens because they are Federal Citizens and subject to Federal Taxes.

    The only other time the people were taxed is when they imposed The Victory Tax Act of 1942 at the end of the war. That tax was only applicable for two years and was repealed, but the people was never told. They continued to pay that same tax. THEREFORE - they Volunteered to pay the Federal Income Tax. Now they have to Unvolunteer in order to stop paying the Federal Income tax.

    On May 29, 1944 (58 Statutes at Large, Chap. 210 §6(a) REPEAL OF VICTORY TAX. pg 234) the Victory Tax and its provisions for withholding were repealed!

    With the repeal of the Victory Tax Act the individual income tax became voluntary.

    “Our tax system is based upon voluntary assessment and payment and NOT upon destraint...” Supreme Court Ruling of Flora v. U.S. 362 U.S. 145

    Our government didn't keep records or demand licenses until 1933. That is when Pres. FDR declared our country in a State of Emergency and told the people to turn all their gold in and exchange it for Federal reserve Notes.

    Using Federal Reserve Notes meant our government didn't have to have gold to back the new Federal Reserve Notes. They could continue to borrow money as long as the Treasury would okay the loan. That is why we have such a high deficit. It is backed by the "good credit of our 'Bankrupt' United States Corporation" and "the productivity of the people".

    (This is what is refer to as Taxpayer Money)

    Now use your head for a minute, if that is possible!

    Our Government doesn't have any money to keep on operating and will be shut down this month if more money isn't found somewhere. Congress will have to raise the Debt Ceiling to pay the bills and keep our Government open for business as usual. These debts are for everything the government has to pay INCLUDING Welfare, Soc. Sec., Food Stamps, Aid to dependent Children, Income Tax Refunds, Medicare, Medicaid,and other programs THAT YOU THINK YOUR TAXES PAY!

    When Congress raises the Debt Ceiling, Trump will have the money he needs to make America Great Again, and it isn't costing you a dime. If your Measly Tax return money paid the bills for everything you claim it does, why would Congress have to raise the debt ceiling to pay these things.

    You see, you experts don't know anything about taxes. You only know what the internet has taught you. You have conformed to the ideas that Big Brother wants you to know- Nothing!

    -- Posted by sui on Thu, Jan 4, 2018, at 8:19 PM
  • *

    Okay so you want to talk about Government assistance. Lets talk.

    The Republican states have the most government assistance programs? Why don't the democrats vote for a democrat Governor or mayor or representative or Senators? Just maybe that would change things the way you want them, however, the people both Reps and Dems are going to vote to keep the programs you are speaking against.

    I said it before, so I don't have any problem speaking about it again.

    The White People created this country and it's laws, That means the white people are the sovereignty in this country over all governments. It's law, read it if you can find it.

    The black people are US Citizens because their parents became US Citizens by agreeing to the 14th amendment citizenship and took an oath to obey US laws.

    In return they have 14th amendment Civil Rights, or 14th amendment privileges, These are their civil rights. The only constitutional rights they have are 14th amendment privileges and rights added after the 10 Bill of Rights. They don't have rights under the 10 Bill of Rights because the Civil Rights gives them their rights.

    Moved right along. Immigrants only have Civil Rights also because they are Federal Citizens and subject to federal and State laws. They are not part of the sovereignty of our country. They are only citizens just like the blacks and browns and all others.

    So now we have foreigners invading our country (How is that a Good Thing?) who are allowed to vote anyway they want to not understanding how our country works. They vote to let and keep illegal aliens in our country and any taxes they pay doesn't amount to anything (see taxes above). Even if they pay taxes, they can claim all the kids they want to and send most of their American money to Mexico so they will have the money to pay for the wall trump is going to build.

    Do you experts on government programs think these foreign aliens are going to vote to lower or do away with their free money and aid? I don't think so. However as long as you let them come in and don't let trump send them back, You are going to complain about all the taxpayer money you are paying to help the aliens and not your own children.

    You would think that would be a wake up call but the old common sense isn't working!

    -- Posted by sui on Thu, Jan 4, 2018, at 9:01 PM
  • *

    Our biggest problem in America is the Anti-Fascist and Black Lives Matter groups. Even the KKK and Neo-Nazis isn't a threat. It is more Democratic stupidity that is hurting this country.

    The biggest threat is North Korea. IT will do no good to put any more sanctions on them. It is time to eliminate the threat of a nuclear war between NK and America.

    Until we can put a stop to NK's nuclear threats, we can not expect Iran to listen to a thing we say.

    It;s just like I said before about Isis. We have to go in and kill everyone of them including their families. Look at the new Osama Bin Laden. His son is taking over his place because we didn't kill his family also.

    Pres Trump said about the same thing Obama did when he said Isis was beaten. They estimated only about 1,000 Isis fighters left. If that was all, why didn't they take them out also and be done with it. These 1,000 Isis fighters have about 2 square miles each to live on. Why do they even own any land now?

    By getting Americans to do their killing for them over here, they will be just as strong as before because we didn't kill them.

    Their answer was, they were not going to follow them into the Syrian regime, yet commented that Russia and Syria wouldn't be able to control them. How brain dead was that statement?

    Okay, Good night and Happy New Year!

    -- Posted by sui on Thu, Jan 4, 2018, at 9:15 PM
  • The biggest threat to America is the idiot in the WH.If Micheal Wolff has tapes along with his book he wrote after spending months in the WH,the whole administration is in trouble.The book comes out in the morning after Trump ordered a halt to it.The lies in the WH are coming unraveled quickly.Trump has had a bad first few days for 2018.Even his Voter Fraud Committee is no more since no wide spread fraud was found.His bromance is over with Bannon and today is just day 4.The poor man gets so upset he has to lay in bed at night eating cheese burgers and watching 3 TV`s to relax.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Thu, Jan 4, 2018, at 10:01 PM
  • *

    lets be real,

    You are reinforcing my beliefs in our intelligence agencies as a bunch of idiots that are highly over paid.

    If there was anything to find, why wouldn't our Intell know anything about it without waiting for it to come out in a book? You make them look even more stupid and unable to do their jobs.

    With two years of investigations behind them, they still don't have anything on Trump or the administration. So a couple people got in trouble with the FBI. So what? You can't make a federal case out of it without sending it to the Grand Jury. And just what would you send to the grand jury.

    Doesn't anyone realize that Trump can put an executive privilege on all that material the FBI and the Justice Department has and the case can never be brought to trial. Just like Obama did with Eric Holder's case. Sleep on that.

    -- Posted by sui on Fri, Jan 5, 2018, at 1:23 AM
  • *

    To Prove my Point!

    North Korea ‘Bombed’ Itself with Failed Missile Test, Report States

    North Korea appears to have accidentally sent a missile crashing down into a city during a test that went awry last April, a new open source intelligence report revealed Wednesday.


    Now let's see what happened!

    This open source intelligence report came out last April. That was (7) seven months ago and I am just now hearing about it.

    Where has our intelligence agencies been? They are too busy trying to convict Trump that they don't know what is going on in the hazardous part of the world.

    Just goes to tell us we have the best Intelligence agencies money can buy. They report on only what they are told to report on.

    That spells incompetent intelligence reporting to me.

    They need to get their priorities in order!

    JUST IN!

    Harold Martin, who spent 20 years working for intelligence agencies with top-level security clearance, was indicated in February last year after authorities seized 50 terabytes of data from his home in October 2016. Officials say this could be the biggest heist of US government secrets in history, although it's not yet clear what Martin did with the stolen data. At the time of his arrest he was working for Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp., the same firm Edward Snowden was working for when he leaked top secret files to the press in 2013.

    The Best Intelligence Agencies Money can Buy! Go figure!

    -- Posted by sui on Fri, Jan 5, 2018, at 3:27 PM
  • Sui if he does anything to stop the Russia Investigation his goose will be cooked.He wont have to worry about just collusion,obstruction of justice will be a bigger problem for him.He is not above the law,that is why we have 3 branches of government.I do not understand if he has nothing to hide why not just sit back and relax.The investigation is not over so how do you come to the conclusion that there is no collusion?

    Never seen a turnover of this magnitude in any administration in the first year.WH staff are leaving in droves,6 today.

    Republicans in congress are more interested in protecting Trump than they are in finding facts.They do not care that the Russians interfered in our election.Why are they refusing to release Fusion GPS transcripts from intelligence meeting?They work for the American people not Trump.Now they want ole Sessions to resign so they can replace him with someone who will shut down the investigation.Why does Trump need a protector in the Att Generals seat.Trump said "where is my Roy Cohn",who was a corrupt lawyer.

    Well stores can't keep enough Fire and Fury books on the shelves.I bet Trump is furious he could not stop the publication with all his power,this is called censorship.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Jan 5, 2018, at 9:35 PM
  • *

    Trump doesn't want to stop the investigation into the Russia collusion. He has already said there is no evidence against Trump. He is only wanting the investigation that started over a year ago to bring Hillary to the grand jury that Comey derailed. I think things are about to get rolling again in the right direction. We will just have to wait and see.

    -- Posted by sui on Fri, Jan 5, 2018, at 10:03 PM
  • So now America has stooped to jailing our political opponents,another step closer to dictatorship.Wasting more money on another investigation on Hillary that will go nowhere again.Whenever Mueller gets closer to Trump he yells Hillary.The president has no business telling the DOJ who to investigate,another step closer to dictatorship.The ones who think this is okay will be sorry when he comes for them.When Trump pressured the Att Gen not to recuse himself and protect him that leads to obstruction.

    Trump and his merry all white men just had another news conference from Camp David,seems Sessions was missing.So much for diversity.

    So Wolff never interviewed him according to Trump,we will see if there is notes and tapes.

    Why is Sessions more interested in cracking down on weed when we have big opioid and heroin problems?

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sat, Jan 6, 2018, at 11:35 AM
  • *

    Don't worry, unreal. Sessions has bigger fish to fry than you. You probably don't recall from 5th grade civics class (whatta ya know, another thing you might want to get your money back for), but DOJ is part of the Executive branch. The Executive branch is headed by the President. I'm sure you can't forget who that is. Must keep you awake at night worrying about what new way we will be winning the next day. I know that must be exhausting, but buckle up, we have 7 more years of winning to have to put up with. But I digress. Since Trump is the head of the Executive branch then yes, it is his business to direct DOJ as he sees fit.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sat, Jan 6, 2018, at 1:33 PM
  • *


    If the FBI called you and told you that Russia was looking at your files on your computer, wouldn't you try to protect ALL of your computer files?

    Well, Hillary Clinton didn't. She left everything wide open for Russia to grab all the information Hillary had on her computer.

    It wasn't until congress subpoenaed all her emails and documents. Then and only then did Hillary switch into high gear and started deleting emails and records that were subpoenaed.

    She even confessed that she had her lawyers read all the emails before deleting them so she could claim there were no secret document on her computer.

    So just confessed to showing all that "Classified Information" to her lawyers to read and determine if it was classified or not. Even Congress said that information was so classified that they (congress) couldn't even read it, but Hillary's lawyers could! Any idiot can plainly see that was a breach of Classified documents.She had to use several lawyers to delete all those classified files, so my question is how many of those laws handled and read and even deleted U.S. Government Classified Documents?

    Everyone of those lawyers should have been subpoenaed and questioned by the FBI.

    She was working at top speed smashing phones, computers and smart phones, etc., etc., etc..

    Yeah, it's not over until the pant suit woman sings!

    -- Posted by sui on Sat, Jan 6, 2018, at 4:47 PM
  • *

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if an ex-president's family member's SS (secret service) protection gets put on hold while that family member is in jail? I have an inquiring mind.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sun, Jan 7, 2018, at 11:59 AM
  • *

    I'm sure LBR will be telling us soon enough!

    -- Posted by sui on Mon, Jan 8, 2018, at 10:00 PM
  • *


    James Woods Destroys Oprah Winfrey With Just 3 Photos

    After Oprah Winfrey’s acceptance of the Cecil B. Demille award, and highly publicized speech at the Golden Globes sparked speculation of a presidential run, actor James Woods tweeted three pictures of her with disgraced Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein.

    So much for Oprah 2020!

    You can see the photos here until they are taken down;


    -- Posted by sui on Tue, Jan 9, 2018, at 9:33 PM
  • *

    I almost am starting to feel sorry for the MSM. Anyone happen to see yesterday how Trump played them like a Stradivarius? They spent nearly an hour showing the world on live tv how in control and functional he is. While at the same time documenting the dems cooperating with him. Naw, on second thought, I don't think I'll be sorry for them.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 10, 2018, at 6:11 AM
  • Sui if 3 pictures destroys a person ,Trump's photos with mafia figures and his wife's nude photos would have destroyed him.I do not think Oprah will run although she has more education and brains than what we have now and is a self made billionaire.Trumps wealth was handed to him by daddy.Did you look up photos of Trump with Weinstein,I am sure there is some.I bet Trump has investigators already digging up all her old boyfriends and ones who sexually abused her as a child.

    Trumps physical is due but we will never know what the results will be as past presidents reveal.Sarah Sanders will come out and lie and say he is 6'6 and weighs 200lbs and he is the healthest president ever.When everybody can see he weighs nearly 300lbs.He repeats the same thing over and over and has signs of dementia,I have seen this for 40 years in the medical field.

    I can not wait till he goes before Mueller.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Jan 10, 2018, at 3:17 PM
  • Oprah gained TV fame by giving away free stuff.

    Trump gained TV fame by having people compete for a job.

    Ironically, that sums up the difference between democrats and republicans.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 10, 2018, at 7:42 PM
  • Oprah did give away free stuff,but her business also employs millions.She donates a certain percentage of her money to help the poor,donates to educate the poor plus fund housing for needy.She is also an actress,producer and a publisher while Trump can barely read.Unlike trump who lies about his charity donations.Unlike Trump she did not spend her life cheating poor people out of money after working for her.So I guess the difference is Democrats help the poor and Republicans like Trump scam them out of wages.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Wed, Jan 10, 2018, at 9:19 PM
  • Helping the poor is the popular talking point among democrats, but where are the results?

    They've been fighting the "war on poverty" for over 50 years with over 20 trillion dollars spent with what to show for it.

    Which area can anyone point to and say that area used to be terrible, but due to democrat policies, it turned around?

    Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Flint, Oakland, Stockton?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 8:50 AM
  • *

    When George W. Bush was elected President the poverty rate was 11.3%, when he left it was 15.1%.

    President Obama took that 15.1% back down to 12.7%.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 11:22 AM
  • The poverty rate was 14.3% in 2009 when Bush left office. It continued to rise for two years (under obama and a dem controlled congress), stayed flat for the following four years (under a split congress), and started falling in the last two years (when the party of no put the brakes on obama's foolishness).


    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 1:44 PM
  • *

    Yeah...ok. I suppose you also give credit to Trump for the current economy that Obama handed over to him.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 3:41 PM
  • Aside from pumping in billions of dollars of money printed from thin air, obama did nothing to help the economy.

    On the contrary, like FDR, his actions lengthened and worsened the downturn.

    Anyone with two working brain cells knew the market would recover, and folks with extra cash saw the downturn as a golden opportunity to invest.

    With that said, a market that was high and fell, then returned to normal is one thing. Having a market at normal levels, and taking it to over 70 new record high closings is another.

    But don't take my word for it, listen to the business owners who are giving raises, bonuses, hiring new employees, and building new factories, and say it's because of cuts to both taxes and burdensome regulations.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 10:31 PM
  • *

    Yeah, RV. Let's give bummer a Nobel prize in economics. He deserves it. At least as much as he deserves the peace prize. Whether he gets it or not, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the booming economy. And thank Trump.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Jan 12, 2018, at 6:24 AM
  • Here we are again on another dark day in America.This is the 8 year anniversary of earth quake in Haiti and MLK weekend,and the president sits in the WH and spew racist language.Now he has the nerve to stand in the WH beside 2 black men and give a speech about MLK.Where are his usual male white crowd he normally appear with.He digs out Ben Carson only when he wants a photo-op after he spews hatred about minorities.The world saw yesterday the real Trump.

    Now his ambassador to Panama has resigned because of his remarks.Anyone who says he only wants white educated immigrants to come to America is a racist.Of course he has already tweeted he did not say these things.The republican congressmen in the room are a poor excuse for a man if they do not speak up.So far only Durbin has stood up and admitted Trump said these things over and over.

    The "very smart president" stated he is not going to England because Obama screwed up the embassy deal.The deal was made under Bush,smh.He avoids going because he can not stand the world see him being rejected by the people there.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Jan 12, 2018, at 11:11 AM
  • What about Walmart giving raises and a $1000 bonus for 20 year employees ($50 a year) and then firing thousands and closing over 150 Sams Clubs.They are not the only companies doing this.When Trump takes credit for raises will he blame Obama or Hillary for layoffs?

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Jan 12, 2018, at 1:15 PM
  • When liberals say Trump inherited obama's economy, will the layoffs also be due to obama?

    It's funny that liberals are upset over Trump calling these countries _______s, yet the main liberal argument against deporting illegals were that those countries were _______s.

    Now that liberals are defending those countries, there should be no impediment to mass deportations.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Jan 12, 2018, at 2:19 PM
  • *

    Shouldn't be. But you know there will be. They just can't help themselves.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Jan 12, 2018, at 3:05 PM
  • Some illegals came here on work visas,never worked and stayed,like Melania.Did I miss that big news conference she was suppose to have last year and explain her immigration papers?Maybe we need to check for legal papers on all his many wives.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sun, Jan 14, 2018, at 11:20 PM
  • *

    Happy Martin Luther King day everyone. And thank you, Mr President, for the lowest black unemployment rate in decades. Also, thanks for the biggest tax cut for those of us that work.

    -- Posted by fair share on Mon, Jan 15, 2018, at 12:21 PM
  • Fair everyone knows the black unemployment rate went from 15 under Obama to 7 except Trump's sheep.Black unemployment is now 6.9 and you think Trump did it all.smh.It wont be long before you give him credit for the sunrise.That big tax break sure did "benefit" all those Sams Club employees fired.The only one who got richer was Walmart.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Jan 15, 2018, at 12:48 PM
  • *

    Unreal,don't you think it is kinda petty for Maxine Waters and John Lewis to boycott the State of the Union address? They really ought to show up and thank Trump for making America better for them and their constituents and all Americans. BTW, if you don't want to keep your tax break, you really don't have to. You can actually give that money to someone else if you want. Could even give it to the United States Treasury. (That is who taxpayers send their money to.) If you fill out a tax return, the bottom line actually is just the minimum amount that you have to pay. There is no upper limit to what you are allowed to send them. It is a little silly to say Trump is responsible for the sunrise, at least to people who believe the Bible. But it does feel like he is hanging the moon, doesn't it?

    -- Posted by fair share on Mon, Jan 15, 2018, at 9:50 PM
  • Why no comment fair about Trumps lie about black umemployment?

    I would like to know how far republicans will go to lie and protect and even go to jail for Trump.Even WH Homeland Security chief is willing to lie under oath for Trump.The two republicans that did not recall Trump saying s***hole countries just days ago now remember him saying s***house.Their job is not to protect the president,it is to protect our country and democracy.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Tue, Jan 16, 2018, at 12:41 PM
  • *

    Trump is correct that black unemployment is at the lowest in a long, long time.

    What difference does it make whether he did or didn't say the word "sh*thole"? It is not a racist word. It is just a fact. To paraphrase the left, they used to say "we can't send them back, they came from a sh*thole country". Now you say "their country isn't a sh*thole". Great, now we can send them back to their non-sh*thole countries. Problem solved.

    -- Posted by fair share on Tue, Jan 16, 2018, at 3:50 PM
  • *

    For what it's worth, "chain migration" is another term that is not racist. Dems and libs have hollered "racist" so much people don't hear you saying that anymore.

    -- Posted by fair share on Tue, Jan 16, 2018, at 4:02 PM
  • The white house doctor says Trump is in excellent health.

    Now dems will have to invent something else to be worried about.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Jan 16, 2018, at 4:21 PM
  • The WH doctor is trying to keep his job and will say whatever he is told to say.Who told him to say Trump will be healthy during his term and even after,ridiculus.He has so much energy he can continue chasing paid women in his "tighty whities".Trump weighs more than 239 and has hyperlipidemia,that is not healthy.This causes plaque on arteries.This doctor is not a psychiatrist and Trump needs to be examined by one.How long was Reagans dementia hidden?

    -- Posted by lets be real on Tue, Jan 16, 2018, at 5:44 PM
  • Must be maddening to know Hillary stole the debate questions, hijacked the nomination, turned the DNC into a money laundromat, financed a fake dossier on her opponent, promised free everything, outspent her opponent 2:1,yet still got stomped by someone you think is crazy.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 2:02 AM
  • *

    Crazy like a fox.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 2:09 AM
  • You haven't taken into account how much Russia spent. Certainly a sound investment on their part. (And stomped is hardly a description of an election that was decided by a few nudged votes from our good friends in the Kremlin)

    -- Posted by lazarus on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 9:18 AM
  • *

    "Stomped" would be an inaccurate term to use also when Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes.

    And his doctor's assessment of his overall health might have been more believable if they wouldn't have listed his weight as 239 lbs.

    This is a man that eats 2 Big Macs, 2 Filet O' Fish sandwiches, a large fries and a chocolate shake in one sitting.

    His as$ alone weighs 239 lbs.

    But I digress. Lies about his health are the least of our worries.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 11:50 AM
  • The popular vote counts for exactly nothing under our system.

    A look at the electoral college map shows one thing, a classical stomping.

    Democrats have yet to show a single vote that was changed by Russia.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 1:03 PM
  • "The popular vote counts for exactly nothing under our system."

    If the popular vote counts for nothing, the surface area tally counts for even less... unless you don't understand the concept of population density. And I know you are smarter than that. The colour distribution on the electoral college "map" is less than meaningless. He won by a handful of votes in a few key states... One way or another.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 3:21 PM
  • *


    -- Posted by lazarus on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 3:21 PM

    Laz, ever wonder if European socialism might be creeping into your life experience? Of course I suspect it is just a typo. 😄

    All this talk about Trump not winning the popular vote has me reminiscing about when we really did have a President Clinton. He never won a majority of the votes cast. Still had to put up with him for 8 years.

    -- Posted by fair share on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 7:31 PM
  • Laz,

    If you don't like the map, how about straight numbers?

    306 vs. 232

    Still a stomping, especially given the predictions beforehand.

    A severe stomping considering the tears, screaming at the sky, and other nonsense that continues today.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 7:55 PM
  • Also severe given the blantant partisanship of most of the media.

    They've spent hours talking about one word, s***holes, but how much time have they spent covering the indictments handed down in the Uranium one scandal?

    Every indictment by Mueller got countless hours of reporting and prognostication.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 17, 2018, at 8:02 PM
  • Quite did I miss the indictments in the "Uranium Scandal".

    Trumps draft card and drivers license say 6'`2,now everyone else lose height with age except him.Why lie about something this trivial? I am concerned that he can lie so much and keep a straight face and have lack of compassion for others.

    I bet Trump will even swear he does not know the paid porn star he chased around the room in tighty whities.

    We have big problems in America and the idiot in the white house has time to give out fake news awards.The winner of the award should go to Donald Trump,the king of fake news.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 12:21 AM
  • LBR,

    I guess you did miss it, but that's not surprising given the lack of coverage by most of the media.



    Just a few days ago you were predicting we'd never know the results of Trump's physical. Now, they must be lying because it was the white house that released them. Were you this skeptical when the white house released Obama's birth certificate instead of Hawaii?

    Asking for a friend. :-)

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 5:25 AM
  • *

    Unreal, if you want to stay current with what is happening in the world, you might want to watch the news once in a while. Not saying you should never watch BSNBC or the Colon News Network. You can get your daily fix of Trump bashing and truth denying and still hear some real news. It must have really chapped your behind when the White House doctor that was appointed by your buddy b o said Trump was healthy enough to serve next term also. This is kinda like McDonald's---I'm loving it.

    -- Posted by fair share on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 5:53 AM
  • Since Trump scored perfectly on the cognitive tests, I'd like to see those same tests given to Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, John Lewis, and Hank Johnson.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 6:49 AM
  • How could I have forgotten Frederica "pimp hat" Wilson?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 6:51 AM
  • *

    Well, here we go again. Mikey and fair, always crying out about "fake news", but over and over the first ones to fall prey to it.

    The "indictments" in your own fake news story have nothing to do with the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton, or the sale of Uranium One.


    Since you won't be able to attack or disprove the facts in the link I posted, I'm sure you'll just attack the website itself.

    And fair, you may be loving McDonalds, but nowhere near as much as Trump.

    Anyone that can eat 2 Big Macs, 2 Filet O' Fish sandwiches, a large fries and a chocolate shake in one sitting is definitely "loving it".

    And be honest for just a second....239 lbs???

    Anyone can take one look at Trump and tell there's no way in hell that tub of lard weighs 239 lbs. Maybe 329 lbs.

    So, if they fudged that part of the physical...what else did they lie about?

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 9:07 AM
  • Rosatom bought controlling interest in Uranium one, but politifact doesn't see an obvious connection.

    Yeah right.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 10:28 AM
  • Quite and we still don't know the real results,if you lie about the weight and height what else are you lying about.He did not mention the coronary heart disease until asked by another doctor or the famous bone spurs.His chin alone weighs 100 lbs and he can't even button his jacket.If he is so healthy why did he have to ride the 700 yards in a electric golf cart while the other leaders walked during the G 7 Summit last May? I am sure Trump gave him the cognitive test he wanted,anyone can tell a lion from a square. Quite why do you single out only black congressmen and women concerning the test. John Lewis will go down in history as an American hero for civil rights ,while Trump will be remembered as the worst president in history.

    Obama was healthy and had nothing to hide after his physical.This doctor had to say what Trump told him.A doctor would not predict someones going to be fit during the rest of his administration and the next,those were Trumps words.Especially knowing he is eating 2 big macks,2 fish sandwiches,fries and a milkshake in one sitting and not exercising.

    Trumps approval rating is lower than any other president after the first year since the history of poll.

    I am waiting to see if Bannon falls on the sword for Trump.He was told by the WH to keep his mouth shut.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 1:02 PM
  • LBRZ

    What evidence do you have of anyone lying about their height and weight?

    Is it locked away with the proof of Russians changing votes?

    John Lewis has been arrested over 40 times, quite the example to set.

    The rest are well known for their idiocy.

    Guam tipping over from overpopulation?

    The constitution is 400 years old?

    Russia invading Korea?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 2:10 PM
  • *

    The evidence of them lying about Trumps weight would be that we all have eyes in our head.

    And just when I think you could never make a more moronically ignorant statement than some of your previous ones, you go and outdo yourself with this gem.....

    "John Lewis has been arrested over 40 times, quite the example to set."

    Oh boy...I'm not even sure what to say.

    You have to realize that John Lewis was arrested for the same things MLK and Rosa Parks got arrested for...dont you?

    Fighting for civil rights and desegregation.

    John Lewis not only was arrested, he was beaten half to death more than once by the KKK and the police.

    He was one of the original "Freedom Riders", he marched across the bridge in Selma.

    And you try to make him sound like a career criminal that shouldn't be a role model?

    By your comparison, Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison...You must think the same of him as you do Charles Manson?

    Like I said, you've made some idiotic comments on here but that one really takes the cake.

    Nice job.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 6:16 PM
  • The Trump dossier is falling right in line with Trump's porn star interview.It seems he liked to be spanked with magazines with his photo on the cover.How do conservatives spin cheating on your 3rd baby mama while pregnant as good family values.There are no morals in the WH,now anything goes.Trumps "loyal" staff will go to any length to lie and cover up whatever he does no matter how illegal.

    There was a photo of Trumps drivers liscense on TV today with a height of 6' 2.

    As far as quites John Lewis comment,all I can do is shake my head.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 7:33 PM
  • While a shutdown looms over the country Trump is going golfing at Mar-a-Largo again this weekend,costing tax payers another 3 million.Mexico will not pay for a wall so he is willing to let the government shut down.Republicans control both houses and have one in the white house so if it shuts down it is their baby.Trump can't tell them what he wants because he does not know what the h*** he is doing.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 10:26 PM
  • Idiotic would be trying to lionize a man who practiced "necklacing" and other methods of torture against his adversaries.


    -- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 18, 2018, at 10:41 PM
  • *

    Mike, remember that black on black crime is ok, at least according to some. And I've heard that pointing it out is considered racist in some circles. Speaking of circles, now I'm thinking about the dems.....

    Speaking of the dems, it is sad, but SOP, for them to choose illegal foreigners over America and the men and women who protect us and our freedom. What is a little out of character for the dems is they seem willing to abandon the poor American children by voting against CHIP. They need to get the chip off their shoulders and take care of Americans. They are only children! You really can't blame them that they are here legally! Take it out on their parents if you have to but PLEASE don't take it out on the poor innocent children. Isn't it all about the children? It usually is. And remember, no matter what you do, America is well on the way to becoming great again. You may be able to slow the ride, but you ain't gonna stop it.

    -- Posted by fair share on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 6:17 AM
  • *

    Yes Mikey, how idiotic it would be to honor civil rights icons John Lewis or Nelson Mandela.

    That would be insane. What was I thinking?

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 11:48 AM
  • RV,

    I've never seen you actually think, so there is that.

    Mandela was a terrorist, and a particularly brutal one.

    If tying someone to a post and putting a gasoline soaked tire around their neck and setting it on fire makes someone an icon in your book, well then it wouldn't be surprising, since you think ripping a baby limb from limb while inside it's mother's womb is just a choice.

    It is good to get libs to actually repeat their positions from time to time.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 12:46 PM
  • *

    Mikey, my original post was about your comment about John Lewis, which I see you've tried to shift the conversation away from. I just used Mandela as a comparison to your remark about Lewis' criminal record.

    I suppose you consider John Lewis a terrorist also?

    But just so I get this straight, and for those scoring at home....You're saying - Trump, White Supremacists, Nazis = Good

    Civil rights icon John Lewis, Nobel Peace prize and Medal of Freedom recipient Nelson Mandela = Bad


    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 1:06 PM
  • I know not having a fully functional brain makes an appeal to authority seems appealing to you.

    Might I also remind you that obama also had a nobel peace prize, but that didn't stop him from bombing 7 countries.

    John Lewis isn't a terrorist, but he is an idiot. Sitting in the street with illegal aliens, blocking traffic, counts as moronic.

    Leave it to idiotic liberals to try to play the race card.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 6:48 PM
  • *

    Thanks for the confirmation Mikey.

    Always good to see a conservative open their mouth and insert their own foot.

    And no need to remind me that President Obama is also a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

    It's certain he will go down in history as the greatest President of our time.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 7:26 PM
  • Only an idiotic liberal looking for freebies and to eschew responsibility would believe obama was great.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 9:11 PM
  • Fair was it not a few months ago that you referred to these poor kids as mooching off freebies from the government.Glad to see a change of heart.Democrats want CHIP and DACA,not just a wall,republicans want to please Trump with a wall and no DACA.Americans can see through this and are not stupid.This is all because Trump did not get his biggest campaign promise,Mexico to pay for a wall and recinding Obamas Daca bill.Trump walked away from a bill last week with racist rants.Like Trump said in 2013 a shutdown would be the "fault of the president and demonstration of failure to lead."

    I bet everyone in the WH is steering clear of Trump tonight since he had to cancel his Mar-a-Largo celebration.Maybe the staff can settle him down with big macks,diet cokes and his porn star.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 9:14 PM
  • *

    Unreal, if they are going to take my money away from me anyway, I would prefer they hand it out to Americans instead of illegals. The dummercraps don't just want another round of amnesty, I mean DACA, they also want to expand chain migration while doing nothing to protect the border. If they want DACA so bad, why didn't they do it when the bum was president and they had huge margins in both chambers? Since they didn't get everything they wanted without giving up anything in return, they decided to vote to not fund the government. Like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 12:51 AM
  • The Republicans have the majority in both houses. So who is to blame if they can't pass legislation? Why, someone else, of course.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 1:44 AM
  • *

    Laz, you don't really want people to think you are that dumb, do you? Heck, I'll bet you even RV knows better than that. But surely there are some on here thinking you are right. Probably due to some combination of failure of the education system and disordered thinking brought on by fanaticism/indoctrination. Everyone who has walking around knowledge of government knows that a majority of the Senate does not equal control. If it did, we would be funded right now.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 4:06 AM
  • The bottom line is, the great deal maker *again* failed to "make a deal." There were about an equal number of Democrats who voted "for" as there were Republicans voting "against." It might sound crazy, but perhaps tweeting insults might effectively arouse his "base," while accomplishing nothing of consequence. The shutdown of government, like the failure of every other initiative requiring a vote (except the great giveaway to the wealthy, which we all knew would skate thru congress, with their indebtedness to special interests) is not on the doorstep of Republicans or Democrats, it is a reflection of the leadership (or lack thereof) from the executive branch.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 8:30 AM
  • I am not sure where the question was raised, but I will ask here since I do not recall an answer. Why have so many DACA dreamers not applied and earned citizenship? Were they restricted all these years?

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 9:10 AM
  • *

    This is interesting. Here's what Trump previously said about a government shutdown.


    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM
  • Steve,

    It is my understand that illegal immigrants cannot apply for citizenship. Additionally, children of illegal immigrants cannot apply either.

    It is like the difference between you ALLOWING someone into your house and letting them stay, or someone BREAKING into your house and letting them stay.

    So, what we have is an issue caused by the government failing to enforce immigration laws. The illegals broke the law, brought in their children while breaking the law, and now want the law changed so they are not breaking the law.

    DACA is most likely going to be overturned anyway, just like DAPA was because it is unconstitutional. So, this is all grandstanding, which does nothing but hide the fact that the whole mess is the governments fault for not enforcing immigration laws to begin with.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 10:07 AM
  • *

    Fair, you said that "dummercraps want to expand chain migration".

    The real argument over "chain migration" is not over any kind of expansion. It's that Trump wants to end the program altogether.

    The funny thing is, that this is the very immigration process that brought Trump's family and many other anti-immigration voices, like Tucker Carlson and Toni Lauren, here to the United States.


    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 10:15 AM
  • *

    Steve, why should they have to follow the law when they have learned they don't have to? It's more fun for them to thumb their ungrateful noses at us.

    The bottom line, Laz, is the dem legislators are unwilling to negotiate and do their dam* job of funding the government. Instead of voting on a clean spending bill or for a spending bill with the moon, they are holding the people of the country hostage because they want the stars also while at the same time refusing to allow the other side the ability to better protect real Americans....Now that I think about it, perhaps the dems really are, in their own sick and twisted way, trying to make America better. Maybe their secret long term plan is to make the US more of a sh*thole than where the illegals are coming from. Then they will go back home. Then we will get better. Whew! Long term and very convoluted, but it just might work. Kudos for thinking outside the box, dems. I'm just glad I'm finally able to see where y'all are coming from.

    -- Posted by fair share on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 10:20 AM
  • Trump said in 2013 that the president has to lead,why is he not following his own advice.America is not looking so great today with millions protesting in the streets,government shutdown and "Stormy Weather" in the WH.

    Trump's father fled his country to avoid the millitary,like father like sons.

    The idiot is now sitting in the WH tweeting trying to take credit for the womens march instead of doing something about the shutdown,and his doctor says he is sane.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 1:54 PM
  • He couldn't even get all the Republican votes. This is what you get with a "leader" who can't lead. I will repeat. How do you get cooperation by tweeting insults? This is not 8th grade cheerleaders, altho that is the kind of leadership we have.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 3:32 PM
  • Got a better question.

    If our monetary system can print money out of thin air (quantitative easing was 12 trillion of invented money), why would the government ever need to shut down over "funding issues"?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Sat, Jan 20, 2018, at 5:38 PM
  • Anyone notice the "Dealmaker in Chief" has been absent all weekend.Is he somewhere licking his self inflicted wounds?His State of the Union speech should be interesting if the government is still shutdown.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sun, Jan 21, 2018, at 11:26 PM
  • *

    President Trump wasn't absent. He hung around DC in case the dums came to their senses and ended the Schumer Shutdown. If they keep this up, Trump should have the National Guard and military round up all the DACA illegals and remove them from the country. Wonder what excuse Chucky would make then for having a hissy fit? And you can save your breath about it being unconstitutional. It would be as constitutional as when bummer started this mess with his stroking. With his pen.

    Looking back over my last post I can see how it might have been offensive to some. There are those out there that are easily offended by the truth and reality. And I've heard that words matter. So I will try not to refer to certain places as I did above. From now on they will be called turd world nations.

    -- Posted by fair share on Mon, Jan 22, 2018, at 8:12 AM
  • The FBI has "lost" five months worth of text messages between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.

    Oddly these five months are during the time of the "russia collusion" investigation startup until the Mueller appointment. Previous texts between these two show them speaking of an "insurance policy" against a Trump election win.

    This is also after Hillary deleted over 30,000 emails that were under subpoena, after Lois Lerner's emails were "lost" after being subpoenaed.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 22, 2018, at 3:24 PM
  • Quite turn off Faux and stop deflecting.Those text messages will go nowhere.The Hillary email story is over,she is not president and never was.We have a president who hangs with money launderers,paying porn stars to keep quite,sexually assaulted 19 women,sucks up to dictators and mingles with mafia figures and you worry that someone said something negative about Trump in a text.

    No one can work with Trump without ruining their career.Over 50 people have quit already in the first year,which is unheard of.Now his daughter wants to fire Kelly.When he fires everyone in the FBI who does not do what he wants we are going to be in a heap of trouble.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Jan 22, 2018, at 8:33 PM
  • LBR,

    Not surprised that went over your head.

    Let me break it down for you.

    It has almost nothing to do with Hillary.

    The "Russian collusion" was a story cooked up by "the swamp" as an insurance policy in case Trump was elected.

    There's good reason the investigation is falling apart:It was a complete frame up.

    The FBI has lost its credibility.

    Losing these files would be no different than Nixon claiming he'd lost the tapes.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 22, 2018, at 9:46 PM
  • *

    "Those text messages will go nowhere."

    -- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Jan 22, 2018, at 8:33 PM

    They already went somewhere. The same place as the emails. Finally the MSM is starting to cover one of the real election collusion stories. (Clinton campaign/FBI) The other real collusion story (Clinton campaign/Foundation/Russia) is picking up steam. Unreal, you are correct that shillary isn't president and never was. Forgot to add never will be. But jail is getting closer and closer.

    Instead of firing people in the FBI, it might be better to just disband the whole corrupt thing and start over.

    Gotta give crying Chuckie some credit for standing up for what he believes in. He bravely held out almost 3 days til he got exactly what he already had to start with. Way to go.

    -- Posted by fair share on Tue, Jan 23, 2018, at 5:52 AM
  • *

    The meeting at Trump Tower between Russian officials and the Trump campaign actually happened. It's not something that was "cooked up".

    Steve Bannon, the White House Cheif Strategist, called the meeting "treasonous".

    Trump's National Security Advisor has pled guilty to lying to the FBI.

    The only thing left for Trump and his lawyers to do at this point is the age old defense trick of discrediting tactics.

    Try to put everyone else on trial to deflect the heat.

    Trump will try to discredit everyone, Bannon, Flynn, Mueller, The FBI, The CIA, anyone else that's indicted and decides to sing like a bird.

    It will work for Trump's base, but not for Trump himself in the long run.

    People like Mikey and Fair will never believe any damaging evidence Mueller might find out about Trump.

    Even if Mueller had video tape of Trump meeting with Russians about tampering with our election process, they would find a way to dismiss it.

    Trump won't ever get impeached. But I believe after the Mueller investigation he will resign in shame in the same fashion Nixon did. I just hope it's sooner, than later.

    -- Posted by RocketValentine on Tue, Jan 23, 2018, at 8:05 AM
  • I started a new topic on this folks so you can discuss it under a post made just for it. Others might not see your discussion here since it is getting a bot long and they might want to make comments.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Tue, Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM
  • For what it is worth, Fed Ex sounds like they too are passing along tax savings. . http://investors.fedex.com/news-and-events/investor-news/news-release-details/20...

    -- Posted by stevemills on Tue, Jan 30, 2018, at 3:30 PM
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